John Catsimatidis

[sathor]

John C., as we'll call him, happens to be the owner and a board member of United Refining Company. Today, while I was conversing with one of my friends, I decided to look up a little info on him (I get huge kicks out of reading "early life and career" sections of wikipedia articles on rich, famous, and powerful people - Rick started this whole deal with Karl Rove today.)

Currently, his Networth is 3.1 Billion dollars. I'm fairly certain he's a Forbes 500.

He was born on a small Greek island, and his parents moved to the US when he was 6 months old (NYC/Harlem.) He graduated from a NYC public high school specializing in engineering, mathematics and science (they have those? My public school specialized in nothing, and barely had any funding whatsoever. We had books printed in the mid 80s.) His father worked as a busboy. John C. received a congressional nomination to West Point (presumably, his parents weren't natural born citizens and had no connections - this is where things get fishy.) but instead of attending West Point, he went to college to study electrical engineering. He worked at a grocery store with his uncle "Tony" (Mafia anyone?) at this time. About the time he was entering his second year of university, Tony sold him half of the store (and he paid for this how?) he then proceeded to purchase another grocery store immediately after that. He dropped out of university. Within a couple years, he had bought a few more stores.

Wikipedia quotes him as saying that by the time he was 24, he was earning 1 million dollars a year (in 1972.)

Now even with as few details as this, I want to point out - this is a story of what essentially amounts to winning the lottery, or, alternatively, criminal enterprise. The idea that a 19-20 year old could afford to purchase half of a store in a major US city (or have the credit to do so?) is by itself, questionable. But to be able to nearly immediately after that purchase a /whole store/ and then within two years after that, purchase numerous more - and be making 1 million/year within five years...is literally insane. It's impossible, by the rules, okay? I don't think there's any question in that.

There's things left out of this story - like how maybe his parents were incredibly wealthy already and footed the bill (and his dad never was a busboy.) Or how he traded oil illegally with the Russian mafia to get started (heard that story from an old-timer at United.)

I really do reckon, and I really do -truly- believe, that most people who end up like Catsimatidis had a lot more on their side than good ol' determination and willpower to succeed. A hell of a lot more. And one needn't look far to see examples of individuals with a hell of a lot of intelligence and potential who can't even get a foot off the ground.

If you ask me nowadays, I'd tell you - life is mostly a lottery. There are things you can learn and skills you can build, and friends you can make, in the limited amount of time you have here...but there's no telling how any of it is gonna work out. Especially when you're young and can't see the forest for the trees, anyway. Some people have stacked decks, and some people have terrible hands.

We're not even close to a meritocracy, but there are those who will try to convince you that we are. I'm not sure a society based on merit is even possible, anyway - people are always going to give special privileges to friends and family, and being born with wealth makes a whole slew of things easier in life. A lot of the kids I knew who grew up in poverty...never even had a sliver of hope to get out of it. They'll be lucky if, in this economy, they can even do as well as their neglectful parents did.

Comments

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

Hmm, okay: John C.'s father may have worked as a busboy when he first came to America, when John C. was 6 months old. That doesn't mean he was still working as a busboy when John C. graduated from high school.

Yeah, NYC has public high schools that specialize in STEM, and the competition to get into them is very fierce. The fact that he did get into one - and stayed in it to graduation - indicates that John C. was an exceptionally smart and hard-working student as a teenager.

It doesn't take family connections to get a member of Congress to nominate an exceptional student for military academy. What it takes is straight A's and teacher recommendations from a school with high standards, a solid record of extracurricular service (Eagle Scouts is popular,) and no history of trouble-making. Any student who has all that can just write to their Congress-critter and ask to be nominated.

Congressbeasts like to give such nominations; it makes them look good, doesn't cost anything, and carries no risk - because after all, getting nominated doesn't get one in; it only gives one a shot at it.

*shrugs* I was accepted at Bryn Mawr, woo. I didn't go there. I'd have been the lowest chick in the social pecking order, as well as hopelessly outclassed in scholarship, and almost certainly would have dropped out within a year. Maybe John C. had similar reasons for not attending West Point, or maybe he simply didn't make the cut.

If his uncle Tony owned a grocery store, it's likely they had other family members with property. I'd guess that a grandparent or aunt died and left John C. enough money to buy half the store, and that once he'd done that, he used that to secure the loan to buy the other store.

"But to be able to nearly immediately after that purchase a /whole store/ and then within two years after that, purchase numerous more - and be making 1 million/year within five years...is literally insane. It's impossible, by the rules, okay? I don't think there's any question in that."

It's impossible now, but it was a different world back then, and all the rules were different. America was still riding the wave of post-war prosperity, and technological innovation was opening up an astonishing variety of opportunity. College was cheap, housing was cheap, jobs were everywhere, and an engineering degree was basically a Golden Ticket.

My now-deceased brother-in-law came from no family worth mentioning, but he was smart and ambitious, and had the good luck to join Apple when it was brand-new, so he was quite well-off. Not Fortune 500 level, but way wealthier than any person on this planet needs to be, and he gained it honestly, on his own, by studying and working hard.

Of course, the socio-economic structures of the USA were totally set up to reward guys like him, at the expense of practically everyone else. And of course, he was also lucky, though not quite as lucky as John C. Either of them could have been unlucky, especially in the 90's, when so many promising fortunes were lost, but they weren't.

"I really do reckon, and I really do -truly- believe, that most people who end up like Catsimatidis had a lot more on their side than good ol' determination and willpower to succeed. A hell of a lot more. And one needn't look far to see examples of individuals with a hell of a lot of intelligence and potential who can't even get a foot off the ground."

intelligence and talent
determination and willpower
race/gender privilege
a favorable economy
educational opportunity
social skills
family support
financial backing?
shrewd investments
highly-valued skill-set
sheer luck in not being struck by disaster in any of its myriad forms
.... it's a winning combination, for sure.

*hugs* Hope you're well! I meant to write more here, but fell asleep in my computer chair - now it's 4:30 AM, and the Lunar Eclipse is in progress, so I'm out to go celebrate it. (Yay Sky Rocks!)

[sathor.livejournal.com]

I am well! There are of course the same concerns and worries (and I've had time to pursue learning and updating myself about some of the more global concerns and worries, too, which is good) but after two weeks of no caffeine, and being able to sleep enough, and making healthier diet choices, I honestly feel better than I have in years. I won't say leaving United was the best decision I ever made - I have no idea quite yet what the next step is, and things are a lot more complicated than I would've hoped - but I think it was a good decision as far as my mental and physical health are concerned...and honestly, that's more important to me than anything else now. I've been dealing with harsh ups and downs physically (and mentally) for a long time. Anything that levels me out is a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately college has grown even more expensive than when I was attending 8 years ago - I could likely afford to live somewhere else and get my bachelors, but I would be stretching thin beyond that. I might be better off trying to pursue a bachelors online (sigh, I really DIDN'T want to do that, since online majors are low in number and not typically in my interests) but it would be the cheaper option, certainly.

I guess at the moment, I'm just trying to take time to relax and let the stress melt away. I worked and saved for a long time (relative to my age, anyway) so I'm trying not to feel too guilty about it.

Hopefully everything is well with you, too - I know your medical post had me a little concerned, and I hope that all goes to plan with no complications in any of your future dealings.

It's funny - I never really figured you as socially "atypical" but your one post made me realize you probably know exactly how I feel and what I've been through.


As for your assessment on John C., I think you are probably right - I have no doubt he was intelligent and made some great decisions, and worked hard at different points in life (of course, many other people have these traits and aren't worth 3.1 billion dollars.) He does represent a capitalist fat cat to the T, though, and he's a heavy republican supporter. Maybe part of all that comes from the fact that he was so successful - maybe he doesn't know how hard it is for most people?

I have to admit though, it is really disappointing to see how matter-of-factly you posit that it really was easier in those days. I don't doubt it one bit, of course - my parents bought their first house for under $20,000 (that's what one year of University costs now), and paying the loan off (and getting it) was a simple matter. My dad had a brand new vehicle during his first year at United. I can actually remember when things started getting tight here - when there wasn't as much food in the house. Late 90s, early 2000s, a couple years before the depression struck.

People always throw inflation around, but it's my understanding many people in the area I live in were making at a minimum somewhere around $5/h in the 70s. When I was 19, I worked a minimum wage job that paid $6. That's nearly forty years later. Things have gotten harder...but I guess it's my generation's job to deal with it. I never wanted a lot of wealth anyway - just a simple life - but even accomplishing that becomes increasingly difficult.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

So glad to hear you're feeling so much better! I thought you would, once you were out of that place - just getting to sleep enough, on a regular diurnal schedule, has to be making so much difference.

College might not be your best option - there's good reasons why my daughter decided not to go for her Bachelor's after all; she got the certification she needed for what she wanted to do with it, and that was sufficient. You've already got your Associate's; depending what you really want to do, you might find that it's sufficient, and/or that there are other kinds of training that would be more useful to get.

*wry grin* Actually, young Jedi, it might be useful if you invested almost all of your savings in a high-yield 5-year CD or something, then rambled off for a couple of years training in the School of Experience, which is free to all. Go visit the places you've always wanted to see, work your way at odd jobs, talk to all kinds of people, have adventures and interesting problems... it's your big chance, and when will you get another? See a little more of the world before you settle down in one patch of it; there is much to see.

Meh, my medical bullshit - the big problem is that I need a Real Doctor^TM who would actually listen to me and bother to examine me thoroughly, not a nurse-practitioner at Jiffy Lube County Health Clinic. I had such a doctor, but then she had a terrible stroke that almost killed her, so she no longer practices, and I'm stuck with dear Wesley. Oh well! *hugs* Thanks for your good wishes; they mean a lot.

LOL, socially atypical I am, dearheart. I can't actually pass for 'normal'; the best I can manage is 'charmingly eccentric'. What makes it easier is that I genuinely do like humans, despite all the aggravation they sometimes cause me.

(Too long; continued)

[sathor.livejournal.com]

I almost forgot about this first reply.

I probably am similar to you, Jess - charmingly eccentric, at best. Probably eccentric asshole at worst. My intentions are almost /always/ good - but I know I can come off wrong, especially to people who haven't known me for a long time. My inability to make idle chit chat, and my silent, sort of distant behavior, I'm sure makes some people uncomfortable, and probably makes them think I don't /like/ them - even if I do.

Those 5-year CDs don't even pay off much anymore. 2.25% for a 5-Year. It'd work out to something like 50 cents a day. I did consider it, but I simply don't have enough for it to be worthwhile. Not having access to that money would be more harmful financially than the few hundred dollars I'd make over the five years, most likely.

The only way to make money from nothing now, as far as I can tell, is to take risks in the stock market. Put a few thousand into a couple different start ups, and pray for the best. That sort of thing. The other option would be to wait for another major crash (although I'm not sure there will be one) and invest in major tech companies that almost certainly won't fail - if I had had money during the last depression, I could have doubled it in a year by investing in google, microsoft and apple.

I don't think I'm enough of a risk taker to put thousands of dollars into start ups, and I don't really have the resources to get "inside" those start ups and see if they're really viable or not. Guys like Warren Buffet would actually go and visit the companies, you know - that's almost an unfair advantage, but money tends to snowball into more. When you have what I have, though, it's just a savings...a person could definitely risk this money (or blow it in a Casino) and come out ahead, but losing is far, far more likely...I think.

-hugs-

continued

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

Here's an article from Scientific American that I think you'll find interesting: Economic Inequality: It's Far Worse Than You Think.

Talk about disappointment: I was born in 1957, America's most prosperous year evar, and I've watched our economy slide right down the cliff. Ronald Reagan 'won' his first Presidential election in 1980 - a year after I finished college - and commenced de-regulating everything that had kept the super-rich in check up to that time. By the time my kid was born in 1989, the economy was already getting tight. By the time I left her father in 1997, it was on the verge of desperation: very bad time to become a single mom - not that there's ever been a 'good' time for that.

My adult life has not much resembled the life I was brought up to expect to lead. When I was a girl, the wives of college men (or military officers) did not hold jobs, though some of them had careers - usually those with no children. I thought I'd work until I married; I had no clue that I'd have to leave my tiny baby in someone else's care while I cared for the children of other women, who had to leave them to go to work too. A Bachelor's degree was no longer a guarantee that one could find a family-wage job, even in a major city with a major University.

John C. may have been really smart, lucky and hard-working, but he also happened to be in the right place at the right time, when the deck was manifestly stacked in his favor. Check out this page to see what's happened since then: the results of "trickle-down economics" - a regrettably apt descriptive phrase for how it works.

I don't want a lot of wealth. I want a nation with a functional economy - one that is not built on global war profiteering! I want election reform, tax reform, and all those de-regulated regulations re-regulated, plus a whole slew of new ones to protect the workers and the environment.

It's everybody's job to deal with it. Most of the WW2 generation is gone now, but the Korean War generation is still with us. Being young and poor with no options does suck, but not as much as being old and poor with no options - especially when one has worked hard all one's life, and done everything one was spoze to do, and still ended up with nothing.

Re: continued

[sathor.livejournal.com]

I think I've seen the video based on the study SA mentions in the article. It's familiar ground to me - what I enjoy most about the article is that it points out there's no fundamental difference between the ideals suggested by 9/10 people, whether they are republican or democrat. I think in the end, the difference between average joe republican and democrat is how they (wrongfully or not) think it should be dealt with (or not.) It's truly frustrating to me that there's no real dialogue about this at the congressional level though (or even in some regards, the constituent level.) Some democrats will talk about it and make suggestions, but it seems like everyone wants to continue with a "hands off" policy. The Bush era tax cuts haven't been touched or done away with, even when we know it would help with inequality...which brings me to my next fear.

That the reason nobody in our government will touch the Bush era tax cuts is because the American economy, and basically the country itself, is held hostage. Think about it - if a single family like the Waltons can possess, by themselves, the equivalent of nearly half of all US households, how much power do they wield? And what about the rest of the umbrella corporations?

I want a functional economy, too - but I don't know if I'll see one in my time. Things are completely out of control...and the easiest way for that to be fixed, in my (probably ignorant) opinion is for the people in power to willingly give up and spread out some of that wealth and power...not by government mandate, either, although that would certainly be helpful. I think we'd be bandaging things with legislation at this point, higher taxes, whatever - the wealth concentration isn't going to disappear that way, at least, not for multiple generations. Massive restructuring needs to take place. That would cause major economic upheaval, but so will the end-game of this sort of runaway plutocracy.

I echo your feelings, Jess - my life isn't even close to the ideals I had as a young boy, or a teenager, or even a younger adult. I really thought I could walk a path and see it through - and everyone told me I'd have no problem doing it, because I'm smart and capable, and good enough looking, and a good person - but now I think, maybe, they just told me that because that's what they tell every young person. Why bother telling them the truth - it's just a heartbreak - better off letting them see it for themselves, and maybe, they will get lucky after all.

Given my dealings with you, I can't imagine why you didn't have some love of your life partner there all the while - but that's the lottery of life, isn't it? -hugs-

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

(Sorry I didn't answer this sooner - am wortking my way down the comments one at a time.)

Until we get election reform, elections aren't going to be much good, but I think we will get it, because even some of the GOP are beginning to rebel against their corporate masters now. Inequality has been as bad as this in our nation before, and been redressed - the rich may be greedy but they're not stupid; sick, unhappy workers and impoverished customers are bad for business, and revolution is bad for everybody.

I'm afraid it is going to have to be by government mandate - government meaning We, the People expressing our collective will through the elected representatives who work for all of us, not just the richest 1%. Those plutocrats aren't going to voluntarily give up their ill-gotten gains - they'll yield only what the law requires them to yield, and they'll fight the reversal of Reaganomics as hard as they can. But they are a tiny minority of US citizens, and they do not get to hold all the rest of us hostage to their power-agendas indefinitely.

Thoreau said "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." Kurt Vonnegut said, "Maturity is a bitter disappointment for which no remedy exists, unless laughter could be said to remedy anything." I think both quotes have some truth in them, but they're not the whole truth. I knew both those quotes before I was 12, too, and had read enough grown-up literature to have had 'fair warning' - if such warnings ever did any good to someone without experience enough to understand them.

My life is comparatively excellent. So is yours, I daresay, if you compare your life to that of the majority of people on this planet, rather than to the super-rich 1%. But being smart, capable, good-looking and a good person is no guarantee of anything - and whoever told you you'd have "no problem" was an idiot, because everyone everywhere has problems. It's like Terry Pratchett (RIP) said: “If you trust in yourself... and believe in your dreams... and follow your star... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

I expect you got caught up in the Self-Esteem fad in education, where kids were constantly told how special and wonderful they were for doing ordinary things. That whole ploy back-fired - it either turned kids into entitled brats, or set them up (like you) to be discouraged when they discovered that their alleged wonderful specialness plus $2.00 would get them a cup of coffee in the Real World.

It wasn't meant to be cruel, but it kind of turned out that way - because you're right; life is hard even for the young, smart, healthy, pretty and privileged, let alone for those who are none of those things, viz. most of the human race. Children deserve at least a heads-up about what's to come, and they also deserve to be taught perseverence, because at the end of the day, it's the person who keeps running longest who wins the race.

Of course, there has to be a goal; running randomly in different directions doesn't avail in a race. If one doesn't choose a goal, or if one's goal is to remain free to run randomly in any direction one pleases, naturally the people who do have fixed goals will be tearing past like the wind. No point in envying them, or in pitying them either.

Continued again...

Continued again...

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

I value my autonomy way more than wealth, security, or relationships. I want to do what I want to do, when I want to do it, and not have anybody telling me. Therefore, I was much better as a nanny than I had been teaching in a classroom, and much happier building robots alone than I would have been working in an office. Now, of course, my 'job', if one can call it that, is merely keeping house for James, who is perfectly satisfied with whatever cooking and cleaning I do, because it's way more than he'd ever do himself.

I could publish some books, and eventually I will probably do so, just to get the stuff out there. I could make some CDs and Youtube videos, and hopefully I will get around to that while I still have the range to sing my own songs. Other than that, I'm already doing most of what I want to do.

Ahh, why I didn't have some love-of-my-life partner there all the while... my first husband, whom I met in '73, married in '81 and divorced in '84, was a physically-abusive alcoholic and intermittent psychotic. My second husband, whom I met in '82, married in '89 and left in '97 (the divorce took several years) was a big improvement, being merely a passive-aggressive unfaithful narcissist.

He was the love of my life, though, to whom no other can ever compare. Not that there haven't been others, and I have genuinely loved them, even though I was never 'in love' with them, nor particularly 'in lust' either - it's just a friendly thing to share a bed sometimes. I was not at all open to the idea of ever having a 'Mama's Boyfriend' living in my daughter's home, and had no desire to marry again, so friends-with-benefits was as close as it was going to get.

That's waned since I live with James. We've never been lovers; we count ourselves brother and sister, but I still wouldn't feel right bringing anyone home, even if I met anyone I might want to. I hang out with mighty Ecbert a lot - we've never been lovers either, because he has long loved my Priestess-sister, who's married to someone else, so there's no weird tension between us. My last lover is married and a father now. If someone nice chances by at a Festival some time, things might happen - if I feel like it, and am not busy with other stuff - but, truth, I'd rather sing all night by the fires than go warm somebody's sleeping bag.

I don't think of it as losing the lottery, or losing anything, really. I chose to get married, both times - and not in haste, either - and I chose to get unmarried both times. There have been four good men that I could have married if I'd wanted to, but I didn't want to, and I'm glad they all went on to marry good women. I make a good friend, a good sister, but not a very good wife, and not that good a steady girlfriend either, because of the afore-mentioned 'autonomy' thing.

LOL, and I hope this isn't TMI, young Jedi, but frankly, most of the men my own age look like old guys to me - not that they're really so old; they've just taken shite care of themselves all their lives, and now they're big grumbly bears. Whereas the younger guys are too young - anyone under 40 looks like my daughter's generation to me now, and it would just be too embarrassing.

What I figure is: I had my turn; a better turn than most women ever get, and a longer one too. Now it's someone else's turn to be the Queen of Love and Beauty while she can; I've got other stuff to do now. Of course, if some nice gentleman wants to ask me out dancing, I can probably make time in my schedule for that. *hugsgrins*