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sathorI'm going to try a suggestion, that is, to make a list of things I didn't like about my ex partners. Recently I've been falling back into ruminating about it all...I suppose primarily because it seems every single one of them is happily involved with a long-term partner, two of them with children. But I feel like I can't get over it. They're still deeply wedged in my subconscious, at times even my conscious thoughts. I desire so terribly to be over this, to feel better about myself, to feel that I'm not a fuck up and worth love and affection...but I feel so beaten up! This suggestion is to help me realize that they weren't perfect either, I guess.
I: Meghan had zero passion and never initiated touch. The whole thing seemed very "I'm not sure why I'm dating you" like, which in itself hurts.
II: Meghan would act incredibly immature in public, and one of the times I took her to meet my friends, she basically had a nervous breakdown. Looking back on all of this, I find it hard to believe that was actually happening, given the way she acted after the breakup (suddenly she's incredibly independent, knows exactly what she wants, has tons of friends and is very well-adjusted.) Granted she may have started psychiatric meds too, as she hinted at that at one point.
III: She was 20 years old and still didn't have a driver's license, and never made any arrangement to make my traveling to see her easier (coming to see ME, meeting ME somewhere.) She would complain about the fact that I didn't spend all of my time with her, and yet, I had to hide my online presence from her sometimes just so I could actually have some time to my self without feeling guilty (working on music, chatting with friends, writing or gaming, whatever.)
IV: Back on the friends thing, she never had me meet any of her friends. She never did anything out and about without me in the two years we dated. I feel so -sad- about this. I'm sure her life is much better off now, or at least I hope it is, but it's one of the reasons I felt such a strong need to CARE for her. That being said, I felt like I was never INCLUDED in her life, but I always had to INCLUDE her or else feel guilty or worry it'd be another strike towards losing her. By the time she SEEMED to want to include me, I was busting my ass in operations working and changing weird shifts all the time, tired all the time...and she wanted me to drive an hour to see her temporarily at college. She still didn't have her license, made no attempt to make this easier, and held it against me...more than once. Once she had her license, that was the end of it. That happened once before to me.
V: A lack of desire to make any decision or give valuable input on decisions (even the simplest things, where to go out to eat, what to do on a given weekend.) It seemed like she either didn't care (which is fine) or just didn't HAVE any desire to do anything WITH ME. Looking back, I feel almost like a burden. I remember her saying something like, "the only reason I got back with you the second time was because I thought I could fix your depression." That's a painful memory. I remember how infuriated it made me to hear that.
VI: Every other week it seemed like she was on the brink of breaking up. It'd start like a normal conversation and devolve into her crying or complaining. I feel like that in itself was some kind of acid test, she was seeing what lengths I would go to keep things together.
VII: Not so much about her, but about me - looking back on that relationship, it feels very empty. I must have been oblivious to it throughout. -I- feel empty thinking about it. I feel empty even now - I feel like I lack many of the important traits and desires, feelings and -things- that MADE me, ME, years ago. I feel like I have failed or lost hope of my dreams and...my nature? I don't know when that began. I feel like it was when Cookie and I broke up. I lost something then, I remember feeling like, at the time, I was having an identity crises - and now, more or less, I've settled with "whatever" I am, without the -strong- sense of self I once had.
What about the other relationships? I'm not sure I can pull them out of repression to really get at any of it. I have poor memory of both Val and Cookie, and I really shouldn't. Neither of them were all that long ago by most standards - ten years at most. Much like my memory of school, my mind did something with it - it shoved it deep inside, maybe because it was so deeply traumatizing to my identity, or maybe because I was depressed and anxious so often. I will try my best, though. Maybe it will come back with effort.
What little I remember of Cookie primarily revolves around how I did very little with my friends, limited to her agreement and typically her involvement. The few times I went out to meet or spend time with her friends or party with her circle, I found myself more or less like a fish out of water. Eventually I think that evolved into her going out and seeing whoever whenever without me, and me typically spending all of my time with her except when I was in classes, even if I went to see friends.
She was always incredibly concerned that I would cheat on her - she voiced her concerns that she felt her female friends would, given the opportunity, try to get me to cheat on her with them. Going so far as to tell me they thought I was "hot" or "into me" or "checking me out." I feel like I was isolated for this reason, or, maybe for a more underlying reason (such as abuse.)
I can recall one time where I actually got angry with her for grabbing my private area when I was fully clothed. Typically that's not something one would thing a man would get mad about, but I know it was more or less a "control" mechanism. I remember feeling more or less like I was owned. I was angry because I didn't think it was appropriate at the time - it's not like we were in the bedroom or in the mood. It was so random.
I recall scolding her for swearing in public at Walmart - this really made her angry with me. I guess I felt it was bad manners (and I would still say I'm right, although I do cuss like a sailor, I try and censor that in public or in mixed company) but it still strikes me as odd today.
She cried one night and left the room when I wouldn't have sex with her - I simply wasn't in the mood. Once again I feel like this was more or less a guilt trip, some form of attempting to control me through her emotions. I didn't refuse to hurt her (I loved her very much, and I always had a high sex drive anyway.)
She always found the most trivial of things to make a big deal about. Typical "drama queen" behavior, I guess. Val was also guilty of this. It could have been the age (late teens, very early 20s) or just their personality types, or just a need for attention. I don't know. But it's definitely on the negative list.
She took a job bartending, even though I disagreed - I had just landed a decent paying entry-level job after college.
One time she tore into me because I was so informed and outspoken about politics. I can't remember her exact words - but it really pissed me off. It was like attacking one of my dearest traits - that of being critical and spreading rational (or at least plausible) ideas, however unpopular they might be. I was a philosophy major for crying out loud. As I recall I stood up from the chair I was sitting in and knocked it over backwards in the same motion, and left the room. I didn't scream back at her (she had screamed at me.) She locked herself in the bathroom and called a friend. That was the end point, I think. Maybe I had acted out a little too much - but I didn't return the attack verbally. I just wanted time to cool off. Apparently, she thought it meant I could be abusive. The relationship lasted for a while after that - weeks, months? But I think it was downhill from there. Did she overreact, did I? Did she have a right to think I could be abusive? I don't think so, but then, I don't know what she saw there, or how she felt. I know I apologized a thousand times. Not once did she apologize for hitting me so close to home. Someone I had held so close to me attacked me personally...I guess for me, that's the worst part about the whole relationship.
I guess lastly for this one, was the breakup. It was so abrupt and complete that I really don't feel I ever "got over" it. She obviously had someone lined up prior to cutting contact, but it's a no-brainer to me that such behavior is unacceptable (at least, I've never done that...would never do that.) I was no threat to her, and I deserved better than that. We had known each other since we road the bus together as children, and had been friends for most of that time. Something still doesn't sit well with me about the whole thing.
Val...is even further back. I really don't feel I could pull much of anything of value from my memories. I think her immaturity is what got under my skin the worst - that and, eventually, I came to realize she wasn't who she said she was (prior to dating me, she was pretty much a good-girl prep - at the time, I was a full-blown goth. When we met, she bought an entirely different wardrobe. That's according to one of her old friends.) She tried very hard to seem as if she had things in common, but the more I thought about it after the fact, the more I realized that what made everything fall apart was that she was tired of trying. She didn't want to be with someone like me - I was just a way-station on the road of her life. Since the end of the relationship, she has fallen in and out of touch with me - the first few times I took the contact very seriously. But as I've come to realize, she simply wants attention when she's down - every time she's single, she mysteriously reappears in my life. Shortly after that, she stops talking and is, no surprise here, in another relationship.
Which brings up a final overarching point. Basically every girl/woman I've ever been friends with has been this way with me. As soon as they have a love interest, they cease all contact. Even when I just "want to be friends" for now, I find this to be the case, and I've seen it with all manner of women over the years. Sometimes it makes me wonder if it's even worth investing any energy into a friendship or relationship with them, knowing that it will be incredibly temporary.
I: Meghan had zero passion and never initiated touch. The whole thing seemed very "I'm not sure why I'm dating you" like, which in itself hurts.
II: Meghan would act incredibly immature in public, and one of the times I took her to meet my friends, she basically had a nervous breakdown. Looking back on all of this, I find it hard to believe that was actually happening, given the way she acted after the breakup (suddenly she's incredibly independent, knows exactly what she wants, has tons of friends and is very well-adjusted.) Granted she may have started psychiatric meds too, as she hinted at that at one point.
III: She was 20 years old and still didn't have a driver's license, and never made any arrangement to make my traveling to see her easier (coming to see ME, meeting ME somewhere.) She would complain about the fact that I didn't spend all of my time with her, and yet, I had to hide my online presence from her sometimes just so I could actually have some time to my self without feeling guilty (working on music, chatting with friends, writing or gaming, whatever.)
IV: Back on the friends thing, she never had me meet any of her friends. She never did anything out and about without me in the two years we dated. I feel so -sad- about this. I'm sure her life is much better off now, or at least I hope it is, but it's one of the reasons I felt such a strong need to CARE for her. That being said, I felt like I was never INCLUDED in her life, but I always had to INCLUDE her or else feel guilty or worry it'd be another strike towards losing her. By the time she SEEMED to want to include me, I was busting my ass in operations working and changing weird shifts all the time, tired all the time...and she wanted me to drive an hour to see her temporarily at college. She still didn't have her license, made no attempt to make this easier, and held it against me...more than once. Once she had her license, that was the end of it. That happened once before to me.
V: A lack of desire to make any decision or give valuable input on decisions (even the simplest things, where to go out to eat, what to do on a given weekend.) It seemed like she either didn't care (which is fine) or just didn't HAVE any desire to do anything WITH ME. Looking back, I feel almost like a burden. I remember her saying something like, "the only reason I got back with you the second time was because I thought I could fix your depression." That's a painful memory. I remember how infuriated it made me to hear that.
VI: Every other week it seemed like she was on the brink of breaking up. It'd start like a normal conversation and devolve into her crying or complaining. I feel like that in itself was some kind of acid test, she was seeing what lengths I would go to keep things together.
VII: Not so much about her, but about me - looking back on that relationship, it feels very empty. I must have been oblivious to it throughout. -I- feel empty thinking about it. I feel empty even now - I feel like I lack many of the important traits and desires, feelings and -things- that MADE me, ME, years ago. I feel like I have failed or lost hope of my dreams and...my nature? I don't know when that began. I feel like it was when Cookie and I broke up. I lost something then, I remember feeling like, at the time, I was having an identity crises - and now, more or less, I've settled with "whatever" I am, without the -strong- sense of self I once had.
What about the other relationships? I'm not sure I can pull them out of repression to really get at any of it. I have poor memory of both Val and Cookie, and I really shouldn't. Neither of them were all that long ago by most standards - ten years at most. Much like my memory of school, my mind did something with it - it shoved it deep inside, maybe because it was so deeply traumatizing to my identity, or maybe because I was depressed and anxious so often. I will try my best, though. Maybe it will come back with effort.
What little I remember of Cookie primarily revolves around how I did very little with my friends, limited to her agreement and typically her involvement. The few times I went out to meet or spend time with her friends or party with her circle, I found myself more or less like a fish out of water. Eventually I think that evolved into her going out and seeing whoever whenever without me, and me typically spending all of my time with her except when I was in classes, even if I went to see friends.
She was always incredibly concerned that I would cheat on her - she voiced her concerns that she felt her female friends would, given the opportunity, try to get me to cheat on her with them. Going so far as to tell me they thought I was "hot" or "into me" or "checking me out." I feel like I was isolated for this reason, or, maybe for a more underlying reason (such as abuse.)
I can recall one time where I actually got angry with her for grabbing my private area when I was fully clothed. Typically that's not something one would thing a man would get mad about, but I know it was more or less a "control" mechanism. I remember feeling more or less like I was owned. I was angry because I didn't think it was appropriate at the time - it's not like we were in the bedroom or in the mood. It was so random.
I recall scolding her for swearing in public at Walmart - this really made her angry with me. I guess I felt it was bad manners (and I would still say I'm right, although I do cuss like a sailor, I try and censor that in public or in mixed company) but it still strikes me as odd today.
She cried one night and left the room when I wouldn't have sex with her - I simply wasn't in the mood. Once again I feel like this was more or less a guilt trip, some form of attempting to control me through her emotions. I didn't refuse to hurt her (I loved her very much, and I always had a high sex drive anyway.)
She always found the most trivial of things to make a big deal about. Typical "drama queen" behavior, I guess. Val was also guilty of this. It could have been the age (late teens, very early 20s) or just their personality types, or just a need for attention. I don't know. But it's definitely on the negative list.
She took a job bartending, even though I disagreed - I had just landed a decent paying entry-level job after college.
One time she tore into me because I was so informed and outspoken about politics. I can't remember her exact words - but it really pissed me off. It was like attacking one of my dearest traits - that of being critical and spreading rational (or at least plausible) ideas, however unpopular they might be. I was a philosophy major for crying out loud. As I recall I stood up from the chair I was sitting in and knocked it over backwards in the same motion, and left the room. I didn't scream back at her (she had screamed at me.) She locked herself in the bathroom and called a friend. That was the end point, I think. Maybe I had acted out a little too much - but I didn't return the attack verbally. I just wanted time to cool off. Apparently, she thought it meant I could be abusive. The relationship lasted for a while after that - weeks, months? But I think it was downhill from there. Did she overreact, did I? Did she have a right to think I could be abusive? I don't think so, but then, I don't know what she saw there, or how she felt. I know I apologized a thousand times. Not once did she apologize for hitting me so close to home. Someone I had held so close to me attacked me personally...I guess for me, that's the worst part about the whole relationship.
I guess lastly for this one, was the breakup. It was so abrupt and complete that I really don't feel I ever "got over" it. She obviously had someone lined up prior to cutting contact, but it's a no-brainer to me that such behavior is unacceptable (at least, I've never done that...would never do that.) I was no threat to her, and I deserved better than that. We had known each other since we road the bus together as children, and had been friends for most of that time. Something still doesn't sit well with me about the whole thing.
Val...is even further back. I really don't feel I could pull much of anything of value from my memories. I think her immaturity is what got under my skin the worst - that and, eventually, I came to realize she wasn't who she said she was (prior to dating me, she was pretty much a good-girl prep - at the time, I was a full-blown goth. When we met, she bought an entirely different wardrobe. That's according to one of her old friends.) She tried very hard to seem as if she had things in common, but the more I thought about it after the fact, the more I realized that what made everything fall apart was that she was tired of trying. She didn't want to be with someone like me - I was just a way-station on the road of her life. Since the end of the relationship, she has fallen in and out of touch with me - the first few times I took the contact very seriously. But as I've come to realize, she simply wants attention when she's down - every time she's single, she mysteriously reappears in my life. Shortly after that, she stops talking and is, no surprise here, in another relationship.
Which brings up a final overarching point. Basically every girl/woman I've ever been friends with has been this way with me. As soon as they have a love interest, they cease all contact. Even when I just "want to be friends" for now, I find this to be the case, and I've seen it with all manner of women over the years. Sometimes it makes me wonder if it's even worth investing any energy into a friendship or relationship with them, knowing that it will be incredibly temporary.
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Reply to deleted post
Date: 2014-07-09 02:50 am (UTC)Heya, my friend, I'm still here when I can be, and still reading; just haven't had time/spoons to write anything. I'm well enough, cheery enough; actually kind of proud of myself for being such a Big Damn Hero for the past couple of months, and at the same time kind of tired, and also kind of dismayed at the amount of work still ahead for the summer. I hope I'll get around to posting an update on my Lj soon, but today is not that day: oh well!
I was interested to see your list of things that weren't good about your last relationship. It seems as though the two of you were just not meant to be; that the *spark* wasn't there between you. That's probably the #1 cause of break-ups, if the truth be known - not serious problems, nothing that can be fixed; just... it was worth a try; it seemed like it could possibly work, but it isn't going to work.
Here's another question to think about: what do you want in a mate? What qualities are most important to you, and which are nice but minor? How would you like your interactions with such a woman to proceed? Which of your good qualities do you think she would value most?
*hugs hugs* Hang in there, hon; I hope the summer's going well for you, and you're having some actual FUN... yes? ;~)
Re: Reply to deleted post
Date: 2014-07-10 12:18 am (UTC)I will try and rewrite it soon. -sigh-
Re: Reply to deleted post
Date: 2014-07-10 12:33 am (UTC)I'm glad you're still around - you encourage me to write more often, which is awesome, but don't worry about it. There's some other people I wish came around a little more often, too, but years go by and their stopping by is spotty at best...sad but true part of life. I've been keeping myself writing as often as possible even without your presence, and I've realized how important it is that I do so...it's another one of those traits I talked about in the post that I seem to have lost touch with due to relationships, time constraints, and shifted focus. -hugs- I hope you get more spoons soon - I know that feeling all too well. But soon enough we'll be dealing with snow flying and everything else (at least here) so I figure, enjoy the faster pace of summer while we can...although mine isn't nearly as fast as it should be for a 26 year old man.
I think you're right about the spark - at least for her. I still love and care about her very dearly, but of course she will never know that. I made an attempt to contact her a few weeks ago and received no response...and I won't go any further with it. Seems she's happy enough with what glimpses I caught on some social media, and I wouldn't want to throw a wrench into that anyway. I may be sad often, but at least the rest of the world seems to get by just fine. Better me than all of them.
Re: Reply to deleted post
Date: 2014-07-10 12:48 am (UTC)Still, there are some things that I appreciate - namely, self-care (some level of fitness is great, merely because it means they care enough about themselves to stick with something, but it's not a deal-breaker either.)
Some degree of self-esteem (because I feel that women I've known who lacked it, were always very untrustworthy...I'm sure the reverse can be true too, though.)
Intelligence is nice, but not really a huge deal - I'd rather that our personalities mesh well enough that we can communicate well, and that's all that matters. I don't need someone who's incredibly brainy...and I'm sure there's people who would argue I'M not incredibly brainy...one of them used to frequent this journal quite often. Two masters degrees and all of that - I suppose I'd never be smart enough in her eyes to really stand a fighting chance on any topic, especially if I didn't return to college and get at least ONE masters degree under my belt.
She needn't be strikingly pretty either - I'm not sure I really fit that description, so it's not necessary. Sexual attraction is a necessity, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder for me...and there's a lot of women that I've found attractive that, not surprisingly, most men I know wouldn't. I tend to be attracted to things beneath the skin, although those are hard to find out without conversation at length...and I don't get that very often.
I'm not sure how I'd like interactions to proceed. Every relationship I ever had escalated in a completely natural, almost magical way. I'd prefer if it involved a lot of discussion on a wide-variety of topics, going out together, seeing some things neither of us have seen before (shared first experiences.) I'd prefer if the physical side of the relationship stayed cool, though, because I feel like my best relationships (my first two) made that wait for quite some time...although people in my age group really don't seem to wait long at all...the hook up culture (sex before dating) is all the rage and some might argue it's the only way in my generation's world.
I'm not sure which of my qualities she would value the most...but I'd hope it would be my loving, caring heart and loyalty. I'm not sure I even embody those things all that well, besides loyalty...but I try to improve every day. I don't know if I have many other "good" traits, either - it would depend on who you ask, and as far as my opinion of my self, I fear saying much of anything good because I might come off as haughty. After all, it's not like I have a string of great accomplishments. I'm ME, but I'm not even sure there's all that much to ME anyway.
-hugs- I hope you feel better soon. Summer is going alright...I wish there was more going on in my life right now, but I am pretty beat from helping with firewood, working and trying to stay on top of working out. Summer is time to prepare for winter in my home - and even if I had my own place, I'd still be driving up here to help Dad. Which is one reason why I still sit on this damn fence about leaving...sometimes, the only thing that makes me think I need to leave is the idea (delusional or not) that a woman could never be interested in a 26/27 year old who is at home with his parents.