Ramble

[sathor]

So...going back to a statement that came out of an acid trip back in 2005, Hitler Had the Right Idea.

What I mean by this is that I think Hitler had the right idea...with the kind of unity he was creating. That sort of unity can not be achieved by a nation of "freedom" or "liberty". In truth, America isn't free at all - we like to talk about it like it is, like we have freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of opportunity and choice...in reality, we have none of these things, but we also do not have the unity which Nazi Germany achieved. As a result, we are going to decline - we are already in a state of it, in fact.

We do not have freedom of choice, or opportunity. Those of us who are not incredibly poor, or rich, can not gain the education necessary to have opportunity without indentured service. One could easily argue that the amount of debt remaining from a necessary "higher education" is likely worse than the debt incurred by poor immigrants during colonization.

We do not have freedom of speech, or thought. The consequences of radical ideology - and more importantly - being outspoken about it - are far reaching. Socially, devastating. One can lose all degree of credibility by being an advocate for ideas that are not part of popular opinion, that aren't expressed via the media and most methods of common consumption of information.

We have none of these freedoms, and our level of nationalism is essentially nonexistent in comparison to Nazi Germany.

Hitler had the right idea. He was a fascist, he was a genocidal sociopath. But he had the right idea. And I can understand why a philosopher like Heidegger was attracted to the power of the Nazi Party. It united people, regardless of their societal status, and gave them a higher purpose. It brought people together under one unified ideal - to produce a utopian society that would reign for eternity. And if we desire to survive as a race, we will need to achieve this end eventually, whether we like collectivism or not. The power of atomic weapons, and the threat of global catastrophe, is far too high to not.

Comments

[minxyminou.livejournal.com]

Agree. He actually had quite a lot of good ideas mixed in with the madness. I am honestly starting to think that we will never achieve much with what we call "democracy".

[sathor.livejournal.com]

The masses are far too ignorant to be given any degree of power. This is an unfortunate reality. I don't really feel there are too many individuals of what we might call "higher cognizance" who haven't experienced suffering at the hands of the masses. Democracy is a cover up in any case - it is essentially feudalism. If we achieve a race of superiority, and education for all people, then I think the dynamic would change...but the propaganda machine, and the governments of the world, will never allow such a thing to occur.

I do not mean to say that the masses are /incapable/ of being intelligent...but unfortunately they are engineered in such a way as to be as they are. Intentionally, in my opinion, although there are some who would argue that it's simply a result of overall ignorance...and not malevolence or desire to control.

Democracy would be fine if the institutions of the media...the industry...would perform its civic duty properly...would inform the people properly...would not allow bias to enter their "PROGRAMMING." But this is not the case.

[minxyminou.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

[noximist.livejournal.com]

This post and the one which precedes it make no sense in combination. Hitler (and leaders of other strongly nationalist countries) would not have allowed you to do what your heart desires - you would have been forced into a role which served the government's purpose. Unemployment almost vanished in Germany in the '30's, but that came at the cost of devaluation of wages, loss of union protection, and the right to quit a job for any reason. You would not have been a musician or a philosopher, unless you held those roles as a shill for Hitler. You complain about your inability to do what you want in the US, then in your next breath you express admiration for a country that could have forced you to work as a guard at a concentration camp?

Nazi Germany's idea of unity was a false front at best, considering that the 'unified' country actively oppressed women, minorities, artists, and anyone willing to express dissent. If your idea of nationalism is one in which one group is doing all right while everyone else suffers, then your own country meets your needs quite well. Hitler had no interest in bringing his people together; he wanted to maintain one privileged group while crushing the rest under his boot. He was the Fortune 400 CEO of ethnic cleansing.

Boilerplate university comment:

Plenty of people get educations in the US without rich parents or servitude; remember when I posted that list of resources I'd looked up for you, the one which showed the top-tier American universities committed to funding students who cannot afford tuition? Even if you ignore that, state colleges aren't particularly expensive - the annual tuitions at most of them are no higher than the ones we see here in Canada. If you work part-time while attending school, you can pay off some or most of your debt before you graduate; I've been doing that, and most of my friends do the same.

Plenty of people amass ridiculous amounts of debt, largely through ignorance and bad planning, but plenty don't. Not everyone is talented or hard-working enough to get a free ride to an Ivy League school, but essentially everyone in both of our countries can get a degree without amassing $100,000 in loans. There are numerous resources online which show average wages at various levels of education/experience in different fields, and they can be used to determine the value of a given degree.

I don't know what you expect. If you want to be a musician and a philosopher, you will probably never make any money - but you have the freedom to do that where you live, unlike in Hitler's Germany.

[sathor.livejournal.com]

You're taking my statement out of context. Nazi Germany unified people under the same ideals. Freedom in my country is in actuality a restricting force, in my opinion, especially because of the way the underlying society functions.

Take the Chicago conspiracy trial for example. Those men were put in jail in a "free" country - mostly because there was a great deal of abusable power in the government - but there was a great number of people in the country as well, a majority likely, who felt that even though the individuals on trial (and other "hippies") had the freedom to express themselves, they weren't appropriate (or integrated with the rest of society's ideals) and were to be silenced. And of course, police (and military) brutality against the assemblers in Chicago was utilized. It's not all that far from Nazi Germany's way of doing things, BUT there was no unification. It's not that far from what happened to poor Socrates - society desiring to silence dissenting opinion out of fear of what might happen (or power structures fearing a loosening of their iron-grip.)

So there's a bit of a problem, with the claim that there is any /more/ freedom in my country than that of Nazi Germany. But unlike Nazi Germany - as I said - we aren't in actuality unified. We aren't moving towards a utopian society. We aren't promising to fix economic disparity - not even "eventually." In fact, the subject is completely avoided - no one cares except for working-class individuals like myself who are educated enough to recognize it and feel obligated to be outspoken about it - and the CEOs in my country have the politicians in vice grips. My government is a useless husk of an organization that wastes every bit of resource it obtains, and panders to the elite top 1% out of fear of economic destruction - EVEN THOUGH the other 99% accomplish more, produce more wealth, than that 1% could ever DREAM of.

Seventy-million people in my country do not even have enough food.

Pre-Nazi Germany had some pretty serious economic disparity that they fixed right quick by tossing out one of the most wealthy classes - the JEWS - and forcing them to leave behind most of their wealth. Atrocities were committed, indeed, but I think the idea was to get that wealth back into the hands of the Germans.

As far as being forced to work, hey I welcome it - in fact, it'd be better than dealing with retarded human resource employees who I could replace in an instant, and perform their job more efficiently. I'd be serving my country. Don't need to suck up to anyone, don't need to have the best resume out of every other individual clamoring for the same job, don't need to dress to impress, don't need to worry about being judged for my past. I don't even need to worry about getting a golden ticket education that I can get for free via google and libraries in such a system. I'd be given security, just for being a part of the collective. No need to jump through hoops that I feel have no need to exist in the first place.

Oh, and just some other thoughts on "university education" - They ran a segment on sixty minutes as I recall, recently, where an anonymous individual pointed out he was making forty-thousand dollars a year writing everything from undergraduate papers to masters+ level papers using google alone. Interesting, isn't it? Says a lot about the real "value" of education? He said he wouldn't have gone back and changed anything he did, "most people wouldn't trade the education I've achieved through this for any amount of money."

I grew up in a working class family. Both of your parents are lawyers, correct? Did you ever think for a minute that THAT has something to do with your perspective being so far removed from mine? Did you ever think that has something to do with the struggle that I've had, just trying to figure out how the hell I'm going to manage to achieve even the slightest bit of success in a world essentially designed for my kind to fail in?

[noximist.livejournal.com]

You still haven't shown any way in which Nazi Germany was actually unified in any way, since only the top brass and their direct followers shared the same ideals; everyone else was either dragged along by force or killed. If you actually believe that killing everyone who gets in the way of what you want is a way to move toward a utopian society, I just don't know what to say. If you think that what happened to the Chicago Seven - and yes, even the entire system that led to that trial - is similar to but somehow worse than what happened in Germany, then you're suffering from an incredible lack of perspective. I don't have an in-depth knowledge of the trial, but a) police were also charged, b) it went back and forth much longer than it should have, but all sentences were eventually overturned, and c) no one was killed. It was an abuse of police power and of the legal system, but comparing it to Nazi Germany is over-the-top. You do realize that in this comment, you talk about how they dealt with the unequal distribution of wealth by killing Jews and taking their money as if it was a good thing, right?

I've never supported the military, but it sounds like it's exactly what you want - so why not enlist? You'd be given security, you'd be part of the collective, and you'd be forced to work. I know you were thinking about it last year (?), and if that's truly what you believe, then it makes sense.

Plenty of people get through university by cheating. There are serious problems with the academic system, and as more stories like that one - I think I read the online equivalent of that segment - come to light, more pressure will be placed on the institutions. That doesn't change the fact that a degree is the barrier to entry for a lot of good jobs and, more importantly, that if you go to school to learn something, you will. Someone who bought their degree may have the stamped paper for his or her wall, but if he or she is incompetent, that won't be helpful in the real world. Most people who suck at their jobs get fired.

Since you want to get personal:

My father is a lawyer, yes, and my mother was a psychologist before she retired. I am grateful for their help in my life - they supported me until I finished grad school, although I won as many scholarships as I could - and I know that has helped shape my experiences. However, both of my parents came from poverty, way below working class: my dad's family had a farm, a few pigs, and nothing else, while my maternal grandfather died soon after the Korean War, leaving my mother to be raised by her mom on nothing but his tiny soldier's pension. They're well-off because they went to school to learn things that pay well, not because they were set up for success by some unseen hand. They may have resources now, but throughout my life they've taught me that I get things by working my ass off for them. I'm pretty sure I've learned that lesson, because I don't remember the last time I worked less than 60 hours a week, between schoolwork, software development on the side, and my creative pursuits. When I have money, it will be because I have earned it; I've set goals, and I've put in a hell of a lot of time and effort to attain them. "Choosing the right parents" (as Bryan likes to joke) is helpful, but it's what you do with your time that determines where you end up. I know a lot of people, and in most cases, you can't tell where they came from by looking at what they're doing now, in their late twenties and early thirties. Some friends who have had every opportunity since birth are doing nothing, and some friends who immigrated from places like Iraq are doing just fine.

[noximist.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure I tried to support you in your bid to be a musician before, and you blew me off because life is such an awful place. Musicians don't make much money, and you already know that... and whenever someone has suggested a way you -could- make money from music, like teaching others, being a studio musician, or taking on another job on the side, you've scoffed. I ran the numbers when I was considering becoming a full-time writer/editor, and the numbers weren't enough for me. We're different in that way, though, and my point was that if you want to do that, the more power to you. You're free to do so.

I think it's time I stopped commenting here. We've disagreed about many things over the years, but the whole Nazi Germany thing is just... too much for me. Yeah, you feel hard done by and you probably have been, but complaining about America and then looking at a country that killed millions of its own people in order to improve the lives of those who were the correct race as an example of -unification- is disgusting.

[sathor.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying killing jews is justified. I'm saying jewish people who weren't native to germany had supposedly become incredibly wealthy, destroying the standard of living for germans, Besides that, if they really were an elite bourgeois class, the german's had every right to toss them out. They didn't have a right to murder them, but that wasn't exactly the intention from the beginning either - in my opinion - that doesn't mean it's the reality, but at least the idea of redistributing wealth is on the right track. The idea of removing an economic class of people that is unnecessary in the industrial era is on the right track.

We have essentially the same amount of disparity that existed in feudal empires...why is this acceptable? We have improved our lives in every other way, manufacturing has become child's play essentially, but we can not distribute wealth more equitably?

Are you ignoring the atrocities that America and its western allies have committed? Why are these past and present wars morally acceptable to you, more so than the forced removal of jews out of Germany, or the killing of those jews? Is it okay that it took Germany essentially until the 1980s to rebuild itself, when as you said, most of the people were "carried along" by the nazi party? Thanks to sanctions and penalties by our fair nations?

Is it okay that we gave their scientists asylum, forgave their war crimes, and have utilized their technology to allow for a great deal of the technology we have today?

If nazi germany is so fundamentally evil to you, why is it you accept the evils of our empires?

Let me at the least, point this out:

Well over six million innocents have died as a direct result of American imperialism. I can guarantee that - I'm pretty sure you know it's true. Just because Nazi Germany seemed to be selectively slaying a particular race, does not make it any more evil than the killing of six million people of various ancestry. Neither does the killing of that number of decades, or hundreds of years.

Are you forgetting about native americans? America created an empire from the east to west, brutally murdering these peoples and taking all of their natural resources, wealth and land, and then leaving them to poverty. It sounds pretty familiar to me.

I think it is very dangerous to ignore these things and hold up a group like Nazi Germany as though it is the epitome of evil. Unless you believe human beings are inherently evil, it would be hard to explain why so many people, well educated and not, were attracted to it. But hey, they had propaganda just like we do today - and ours is far more effective - and maybe that explains why people of the west have a strong tendency to ignore what's going on, and always point their fingers outward.

[sathor.livejournal.com]

And you know, I'm sorry you feel that way Sarah. But you went personal with me. How would you feel if I said to you, that even though you think you're doing everything right, I don't really think you're going to end up doing as well as you hope to do?

I'm well aware of the fact that my decisions are going to lead to a life of poverty. I don't need to be reminded of the fact that the world doesn't have a place for someone like me.

But if that's it for our conversations, best of luck to you.

[sathor.livejournal.com]

And in truth, it breaks my heart to think that you are so set in your mindset and beliefs now, that you can not take a moment to see it from my perspective, or understand where I am coming from. I really did not intend to hurt your feelings, and I don't really feel like a disagreement means the end of the friendship. It really does break my heart. I am sorry if I have become a person that you can no longer respect. In truth, I have a hard time respecting myself, or having any faith that my future will be bright to any degree. But I must go on, or else perish. Those are the choices I am left with.

[sathor.livejournal.com]

Oh, and by the way. Thanks for the vote of confidence. I appreciate it when people tell me, in a straight forward manner, that it is unlikely any of the talents I have will ever result in any kind of material compensation.

And people wonder, why I have a tendency to say I'd rather be dead than perform work that doesn't utilize my brain. I'd like to know how apps for apple products, or most software that coders can write, are helping to solve world hunger, bring about world peace, solve economic disparity, provide equal opportunity for all people regardless of socioeconomic status or genetic line.

I have a respect for coders who produce games because they give people fantasy worlds that allow them to actually achieve goals that have some semblance of value to them as individuals - in the real world, the vast majority of people won't achieve a single fucking dream they've ever had. If someone isn't out there trying to help lessen the horrifying tragedy that that reality is, I think it's pretty safe to say we'd have a lot more suicides on our hands - or you know, maybe we'd just have more people lynching the oppressive elite class who sits on their wealth and makes this whole world a living hell for most of us.