Hmm

[sathor]

PHILIPPINES, 1898 - 1910: seizes from Spain, 600,000 Filipinos killed
PUERTO RICO, 1898: seizes from Spain
PANAMA, 1901 - 14: separates country from Colombia and annexes canal zone
HONDURAS, 1903: US marines intervene against revolution
NICARAGUA, 1912 - 33: 20-year occupation and war against guerrillas
HAITI, 1914 - 34: occupation
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, 1916 - 24: occupation
CUBA, 1917 - 33: military occupation, made into economic protectorate
RUSSIA, 1917 - 22: troops sent five times to try to overthrow revolution
YUGOSLAVIA, 1919: marines intervene against Serbs
PANAMA, 1925: marines suppress general strike
CHINA, 1927 - 34: marines stationed throughout the country
EL SALVADOR, 1932: warships sent during revolt
JAPAN, 1945: firebombs Tokyo and other cities, drops atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
PUERTO RICO, 1950: independence rebellion crushed
KOREA, 1950 - 53: US and South Korea fight China and North Korea to stalemate. US threatens to use nuclear bombs. At least two million Korean civilians killed or wounded
IRAN, 1953: CIA overthrows democracy
GUATEMALA, 1954: CIA directs invasion after government nationalized land belonging to US United Fruit company
LEBANON, 1956: US troops land
VIETNAM, 1960 - 75: two million Vietnamese killed in longest US war
INDONESIA, 1965: one million killed in CIA-assisted coup
GUATEMALA, 1966: troops intervene
CAMBODIA, 1969 - 75: US carpet-bombs. Two million killed by years of bombing and starvation
CHILE, 1973: CIA-backed coup overthrows democratically elected government
ANGOLA, 1976 - 92: CIA assists South African backed rebels
LIBYA, 1981: two Libyan jets shot down
EL SALVADOR, 1981 - 92: troops and air power assist death squads, 75,000 people killed
NICARAGUA, 1981 - 90: CIA directs Contra invasions
LEBANON, 1982 - 84: US forces intervene, navy shells Beirut
HONDURAS, 1983 - 89: US troups build bases for death squads
GRENADA, 1983: US invasion
LIBYA, 1986: capital Tripoli bombed in effort to kill President Gadaffi
IRAN, 1987: Iranian passenger jets shot down over Persian Gulf
PANAMA, 1989 - 90: invasion, thousands of civilians killed
GULF WAR, 1990 - 91: US-led coalition kills 100,000 Iraqis. Post war sanctions kill an estimated one million civilians in the following ten years
SOMALIA, 1992 - 94: US-led United Nations occupation
EX-YUGOSLAVIA, 1995: bombs Serbs and assists ethnic cleansing
SUDAN, 1998: bombs pharmaceutical factory
IRAQ, 1998: four days of air strikes, raids continue until present day
SERBIA 1989: 78 days of NATO air strikes
AFGHANISTAN, 2001: US-led war kills thousands
IRAQ, 2002/3: ...


Got this from www.theboywhocriediraq.com

Figure some of you might find it interesting

Comments

[hav.livejournal.com]

I find it interesting that the actual causes of everything on that list has been omitted by Mr. Dan Berman. Of course, including the causes of everything there would deny him credibility as he attacks the government and reasoning for war.

That part, I really don't care about. It's a very humorous and careful piece of work, that unfortunately, fails to tell the whole story. Then again, it isn't supposed to. If it were, it'd be rather dry and really long.

In lampooning government and media practices concerning the middle east, he's done exactly what they do to get his point across.

I find that amusing.

[sathor.livejournal.com]

The reasons the causes were omitted, hav, is because causes are irrelevant.

NO DEATH is WORTH IT.

Oh, and lets not forget that after the WTC bombing, we bombed Afghanistan killing 1 million civilians,500,000 of them children. Are you going to condone that, hav? Are you going to tell me that you say it was for the greater good that 500,000 innocent children died?

Oh, I forgot. In the name of freedom. Yeah, if we were bombed and 500,000 innocent children died here, I think you wouldn't say their attack was in the name of freedom, now would you?

Preemtive attack against a state which posed no threat to us. Are you going to condone that? Because then you're also condoning Hitler's attack on Poland, it was the same thing, hav.

The point of view is irrelevant hav. It's like saying in the time of the crusades the Christians were right for slaughtering pagans. With their beliefs, they were right. Just because they believed it then, doesn't mean people believe it was right, in the now.

I know plenty of people who take the side that I am on, hav. I'm more patriotic than any of the war-mongerers in the capital. I want peace, I want freedom of religion, I want freedom of choice, I want freedom of expression. Killing others isn't the key to supplying it for ourselves or the rest of the world. If you honestly believe that hav, then don't ever speak to me again on matters of politics, and don't ever comment on anything I have to say about the matter, because I don't want the opinion of someone who believes that, no way. In any case, I'd prefer if we didn't speak about politics and reasons for war, because all we're ever going to do is argue. I guess it's wrong to believe in peace, after all, in the eyes of the American 'patriots'.

Be well, hav. I hope life is going well for you.

Two Items

[jennb.livejournal.com]

First: Where did you get the five hundred thousand children numbers? Legitimate question, as I haven't seen any serious statistics like that in ANY source of information that I would take seriously in any amount.

Second: Calm down. Justin has a very good point and a right to his opinion as much as you. That entire list is a form of propaganda, and causes are not irrelevant. I'm just not going touch your "no death is worth it" uber-dogmatic-no-room-for-debate mantra there.

You get pissed off awful easily for a self proclaimed pacifist, kid.

Re: Two Items

[sathor.livejournal.com]

Pacifism doesn't mean I'm not allowed to speak my mind, Jenn.

But you know what...this isn't worth it.

An apology, probably should just read this one first in honesty.

[sathor.livejournal.com]

I'd also like to correct my former remarks, I had a feeling after reading through them again something was wrong with the numbers, and jenn pointed out I put two extra zeros on the end (memory doesn't always serve me so well) - That doesn't mean it's any less horrific, however, because that's still twice as many innocents killed as in WTC...and we all know two wrongs do not make a right.

As berman points out, and I honestly do agree with him, our actions in El Salvador in standing by and allowing the death of 30,000 innocents because they were rebelling was probably one of the reasons Osama coordinated the suicide bombing of WTC (of course, that's an opinion). 30,000 innocents died, in turn Osama kills 3,000, because of that we kill 10,000 innocent afghans, 5,000 of them children. Not so fair and kind and peaceful, I would say.

In either case, I let my emotions run rampant on a subject like this, something I have realized many times before and am trying to rectify, and as Jenn has so kindly pointed out to me. So, I'm going to apologize for my rash behavior. But I won't apologize for my belief in this war being unjust and having underlying truths that people refuse to believe. Not to mention I won't condone any militaristic action by America unless it is defense of our homeland. Period, end of story. Iraq posed no threat to us, therefore, we had no reason to go there, in my eyes.

Once again, I'm sorry. I have to keep working on controlling my emotions or no one is going to take me seriously. I have my own standards to uphold anyway, and I'm not following them very well. No wonder I feel out of balance. Dropping the subject would help, but then again that would mean not standing up for what I believe. A pacifist like that will be consumed.

[cichli.livejournal.com]

I'm still undecided on this whole issue.
Granted, any innocents death is horrific/un-needed.
But.. In Afghanistan the Taliban was keeping the country in terror, and in Iraq Saddam did the same.

Now, everyone keeps saying "the Bush administration only wanted oil and money and yaddah yaddah", but on the positive side, they DID free two countries from dictatorship.
Everyday they lived in fear of being killed, or otherwise hurt, and it was all very unjust.

My problem then, is the fact that I have no facts on how many civilians dies in afghanistan and Iraq, and neither do I have info on how these countries are now. What are the living conditions? Do most Iraqi's feel free and better now? What has changed?
I'm being fed different information from all sorts of sources and I just can't make a decision on it.
I can't even trust the media anymore.. Not even CNN is a valid source of information on these things.

[sathor.livejournal.com]

Civilians killed in afghanistan by american bombings: 10,000

children: 5,000


Over twice as many civilian casualties as in WTC, and Berman at www.theboywhocriediraq.com has a valid point I believe when he says the fact we stood by with a cruiser and two destroyers and allowed 30,000 innocent El Salvadorans to be slaughtered because they were rebelling against the 2% of the population that owned 60% of the land (it was an economical thing for us if they lost, supposedly) was one of the reasons Osama had for performing the WTC attack anyway. Now, berman might've only said that was one of the reasons Osama had, but I guess you can look at it as karmic retribution in an overall sense.

Also, there's tons of other countries out there with problems like that, but I can garauntee you we won't be freeing them all, and I'll be you the reason is we wouldn't benefit from it.

Two wrongs, don't make a right. Three wrongs make it horrific.