Gun Control (Sick Society)
Oct. 9th, 2015 11:52 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sathorToday I spent a little bit of time bickering back and forth with some gun nuts on Reddit...yep...highlight of the day (not.) Just had a few thoughts I wanted to write down.
First of all I really think the whole "mental illness is the real problem" thing is a huge cop out. This seems to reflect that thought: http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php
In fact, I'll go as far to say that it's a diversion tactic used by both sides of the gun control debate. I'm willing to bet money that many of the mass shooters in this country would not have been diagnosed with a mental illness via DSM-V criteria, besides maybe depression or anxiety (since these are so incredibly common anyway) At the time of the shooting and leading shortly up to it, maybe. But as a whole? I doubt it. Some of these individuals may have suffered from a very recent psychotic episode, but that's hardly something changing the mental health industry can alleviate.
As a whole, I don't think retrospectively looking at these people trying to find indications of how insane they are/were is useful, and I actually think if you were to pick through the history of just about anyone, you can find whatever it is you are looking for (confirmation bias?) Moving on...
Gun control proponents use the mental health talking point to edge in tighter restrictions because they don't want to outright attack the gun ownership camp. They don't have a lot of luck directly attacking, and I mean, I can't blame them for trying something different - nothing seems to work on people convinced they need to own assault weapons - but it's objectively wrong to say mental illness is the biggest contributor to these shootings and gun violence in general.
Gun owner proponents use it to deflect blame from gun ownership itself, because they don't actually have rational reasons for owning assault weapons and large capacity magazines. They know, whether consciously or subconsciously, that there's no good excuse for needing to have such weapons, and they avoid at all costs arguing about that specifically. They have to concoct elaborate theoretical scenarios to justify owning assault weapons, up to and including the government coming to throw them in concentration camps, an occupying army that (apparently?) defeats our military, or post-apocalyptic lawlessness. Even if you specify just assault weapons needing to be banned, they will latch onto you like a blood-thirsty tiger, and claim you're supporting the slippery slope that leads to complete disarmament, etc.
The more I dig into this sector of our society, the more afraid I get. Many of these people advocate for open carry laws everywhere, and I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of children growing up in a world where most people walk around with AK-47s strapped to their backs...nor do I personally want to live in a world like that. Furthermore, a country like that looks more akin to a third world anarchic state than a first world democracy. Open carry laws are a step backwards as far as I'm concerned, and I'm fairly frightened that's the direction we're going.
Then there's this little thought experiment I discovered:
In stand your ground states, you have the right to fire on anyone who you feel is threatening you. So if I see someone with an AK-47 wearing kevlar stalking around a public park, and I feel threatened, then technically I have a right to open fire on them. See where this is going?
What kind of a world is that? I remember sitting in a bar once and a fight broke out to the left of me - a couple punches were exchanged and finally the instigator was escorted to the door...but not before he turned around and flashed his holstered pistol, while looking menacingly at the other guy and everyone else. Would you feel safe after seeing that? The gun ownership camp would probably say something like, "I wouldn't be scared because I have a concealed pistol myself" but of course if that guy rattles a few shots off from the doorway five minutes later, you aren't going to have much time to react...are you?
This whole gun ownership paradigm is just one of many severe ideological problems in this nation. Government can't...and won't...fix it. It is a problem with the people, not the government, and I am beginning to wonder if in the greater scheme of things, that's the root issue with almost all of the political and economic problems we face today. It's the people...not the government.
So how do you fix a sick society?
Also worthwhile reading: http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not_about_mental_illness_the_big_lie_that_always_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/
First of all I really think the whole "mental illness is the real problem" thing is a huge cop out. This seems to reflect that thought: http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php
In fact, I'll go as far to say that it's a diversion tactic used by both sides of the gun control debate. I'm willing to bet money that many of the mass shooters in this country would not have been diagnosed with a mental illness via DSM-V criteria, besides maybe depression or anxiety (since these are so incredibly common anyway) At the time of the shooting and leading shortly up to it, maybe. But as a whole? I doubt it. Some of these individuals may have suffered from a very recent psychotic episode, but that's hardly something changing the mental health industry can alleviate.
As a whole, I don't think retrospectively looking at these people trying to find indications of how insane they are/were is useful, and I actually think if you were to pick through the history of just about anyone, you can find whatever it is you are looking for (confirmation bias?) Moving on...
Gun control proponents use the mental health talking point to edge in tighter restrictions because they don't want to outright attack the gun ownership camp. They don't have a lot of luck directly attacking, and I mean, I can't blame them for trying something different - nothing seems to work on people convinced they need to own assault weapons - but it's objectively wrong to say mental illness is the biggest contributor to these shootings and gun violence in general.
Gun owner proponents use it to deflect blame from gun ownership itself, because they don't actually have rational reasons for owning assault weapons and large capacity magazines. They know, whether consciously or subconsciously, that there's no good excuse for needing to have such weapons, and they avoid at all costs arguing about that specifically. They have to concoct elaborate theoretical scenarios to justify owning assault weapons, up to and including the government coming to throw them in concentration camps, an occupying army that (apparently?) defeats our military, or post-apocalyptic lawlessness. Even if you specify just assault weapons needing to be banned, they will latch onto you like a blood-thirsty tiger, and claim you're supporting the slippery slope that leads to complete disarmament, etc.
The more I dig into this sector of our society, the more afraid I get. Many of these people advocate for open carry laws everywhere, and I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of children growing up in a world where most people walk around with AK-47s strapped to their backs...nor do I personally want to live in a world like that. Furthermore, a country like that looks more akin to a third world anarchic state than a first world democracy. Open carry laws are a step backwards as far as I'm concerned, and I'm fairly frightened that's the direction we're going.
Then there's this little thought experiment I discovered:
In stand your ground states, you have the right to fire on anyone who you feel is threatening you. So if I see someone with an AK-47 wearing kevlar stalking around a public park, and I feel threatened, then technically I have a right to open fire on them. See where this is going?
What kind of a world is that? I remember sitting in a bar once and a fight broke out to the left of me - a couple punches were exchanged and finally the instigator was escorted to the door...but not before he turned around and flashed his holstered pistol, while looking menacingly at the other guy and everyone else. Would you feel safe after seeing that? The gun ownership camp would probably say something like, "I wouldn't be scared because I have a concealed pistol myself" but of course if that guy rattles a few shots off from the doorway five minutes later, you aren't going to have much time to react...are you?
This whole gun ownership paradigm is just one of many severe ideological problems in this nation. Government can't...and won't...fix it. It is a problem with the people, not the government, and I am beginning to wonder if in the greater scheme of things, that's the root issue with almost all of the political and economic problems we face today. It's the people...not the government.
So how do you fix a sick society?
Also worthwhile reading: http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not_about_mental_illness_the_big_lie_that_always_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/
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no subject
Date: 2015-10-10 10:30 am (UTC)Most people think there's something wrong about the behavior of those who go out and shoot random innocent people. A lot of people think there's something wrong about the behavior of those who buy assault rifles: as you say, there's no rational reason for owning such items. More and more people think - and are saying - that there's something wrong about the behavior of those who pump money into the NRA to block any legislation that would put any restrictions on gun ownership.
What you're seeing is the back-lash to a swelling tide of public opinion that says "Enough already." It's just like with gay marriage, right? Gay marriage is legal now because the majority of Americans agree that it ought to be legal, in spite of the increasingly-hysterical screaming of the increasingly-small minority that oppose it. The gun nuts are getting increasingly hysterical for the same reason: because the majority of Americans do want gun control, and will eventually have it.
What's wrong with our society is that it's ruled by the ultra-rich. The only way of fixing that is through election reform, so that every citizen votes, any citizen can successfully run for office, and money does not buy political favor. We DO have a democratic process for instituting such reforms, and more and more people are getting behind that these days.
There will be more mass shootings before this is over, because - as you've seen - there are a lot of guys chronically enraged by their frustrated sense of entitlement, and nothing to prevent any of them from expressing that frustration with assault rifles. It sounds horrible to say, but if a rich and powerful Republican Senator lost a child to such a shooter, we'd see some effective Federal legislation pretty damn quick. A great many more people die from handguns, but since most of them are poor nobodies, their deaths aren't even 'news' - just business as usual. If, on the other hand, they were all voters, and their votes actually determined who held public office, their lives would matter a lot more to the politicians in those offices.
Y'know what else: for all the outcry of "They want to take our guns!", taking the guns would not be necessary. I say, let them keep the guns they already have, but make them present their picture ID, firearms license, proof of insurance and registration in order to buy ammo for only the firearms registered in their name. As for the weapons manufacturers who support the NRA, all that money they spend to Keep America Armed And Dangerous would be so much better spent on paying taxes.
Don't be scared, young Jedi, and don't succumb to 'Millennial despair' - all this foofarah you see is a sign that the times are changing, whether certain people like it or not. Those dudes on Reddit have no power, so bickering with them accomplishes nothing. Indeed, it only polarizes them farther, and discourages you, because it's impossible to change their minds. But it's not their minds that have to change; it's the policies of our law-makers. E-mail them with your opinions about gun control; they're the ones who can do something about it.