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[personal profile] sathor
Clinton:
Cons
- Far too aggressive towards Russia, especially given the connections Joe Biden's son has in Ukraine (he is an acting CEO of an oil company) and US interests regarding a pipeline in Syria. The language she uses when speaking about Russia is unacceptable given that Putin has said numerous times he would much rather cooperate with us. We are not in the cold war and the entire planet benefits when nuclear powers work together.
- Questionable on gun control. Sanders policy was far more reasonable.
- Terrible regarding free trade and support of unfettered capitalism. NAFTA was terrible, so was the nullification of glass-steagall, both of which were accomplished by her husband. I want to reiterate here that I don't believe spouses of previous presidents should be able to hold political office, nor should daughters and sons. Far too much power and wealth concentration occurs by allowing such things.
- Flip flopping and legislative vote history

Pros
- Supports roe v. wade and women's rights. Does not appear to believe religion should hold sway regarding these decisions.
- Fair immigration policy
- Generally level-headed

Trump:
Cons
- Unable to determine actual policy stances because he's unpredictable. He may say something to obtain votes and not actually mean it, or may actually mean it in practice and implementation. Hillary is guilty of this as well, as all politicians tend to be, however I believe he is a particularly egregious case.
- Supports national open carry policy - I don't want to live in Libya, I don't want to see ak-47s in Walmarts or around me in public.
- Would elect justices that would overturn roe v. wade "day one." Totally unacceptable, although I don't actually believe given his background and lifestyle that he is anti-abortion. This is one example of where the first con comes into play.
- Has an issue with immigration, even though basically everyone here, or their ancestors, was an immigrant at one time. Rounding people up would be a logistical nightmare and almost impossible, and would simply serve to overburden prisons.
- Wants to "save the coal industry" and that makes him, excuse my terminology, a fucking idiot

Pros
- *Appears* to have a better view on free trade and taxes when it comes to the wealthy and trans-national corporations, maybe owed to the fact that he has heavily abused said systems.
- Looks at Russia as a friend, and I believe we need to be friends with them as well as China.
- Does not appear to be bought by Wall Street. We all know about Hillary's secret speeches with them that were highly paid, and if you've watched Bloomberg TV at all in the past half a year, you know for a fact that they only have interest in her being elected. There's a reason for that.



Who am I going to vote for? Nobody. My conscience can't possibly handle having voted for either of them.

While I don't believe Hillary is any good for this country long term, or for people like myself - the working class - I do tend to believe she would have a somewhat better outcome. That's of course assuming that we don't end up in another cold war because of her war hawk behavior, or in more direct conflicts period.

Date: 2016-10-27 01:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elenbarathi.livejournal.com
Under 'Cons' for Trump, note that:

~ he is a climate-change denier who says he would take down most of the environmental regulations on industry,

~ he's an egregious liar who persists in his lies even when proof that he's lying is right in his face,

~ he's a self-confessed sexual predator, a bully who mocks and demeans women, and who uses his size and strength to intimidate them,

~ he's a tax evader, to the tune of millions of dollars, and probably should have gone to jail for it.

~ he's an extremely shady businessman who's been charged with fraud, declared bankruptcy numerous times, and been sued over and over for failure to pay his contractors,

~ he has no idea how the government actually works, cf. his inane comments about Obamacare,

~ he's insulted just about every group in America, including his own deplorable followers, of whom he boasts that they wouldn't care if he shot someone on the street,

~ he's threatened repeatedly to take vengeance on his political enemies if elected,

~ he openly urged Russia to hack Hillary Clinton's e-mails,

~ he's urged and 'dog-whistled' violence to his followers so much that even his former GOP supporters have finally woken up and backed off from him,

~ his lies about the election being rigged are discrediting our democratic process: another reason his former friends are edging away,

~ since the second debate, his mental state has deteriorated so markedly that he can hardly form a complete sentence, and is unable to stick to any topic but "Hillary is Evil" and "Everyone Conspired Against Me".

~ he's been a laughing-stock to the other nations of the world right along, but he's dragging down the reputation of all Americans now, because people elsewhere are stunned (and scared!) that we're crazy enough to let someone like Trump get this close to the White House.


.... you say your conscience can't possibly handle voting for either of them. Is that just because you figure Trump has no chance of winning in Pennsylvania now anyway, or would you abstain just the same if you thought your vote might make a difference?

How will your conscience handle it if you don't vote, and Trump wins?

Date: 2016-10-27 05:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sathor.livejournal.com
The root problem at this point is that everyone who is a Hillary supporter, and those who desire to get me to go out and vote (not talking about you) are saying, "Look, if you don't vote, that's a vote for Donald Trump." That's not true. It's not true, because Donald Trump supporters are saying the same thing, only reversed (Look, if you don't vote, that's a vote for Hillary Clinton.)

I *won't* be coerced like that. I don't like either candidate, and by voting for them I am legitimizing their rule and position, which I don't want to do. I don't believe in dynasties in the United States, Clinton represents that - and I don't believe in money buying political power, Trump represents that.

Clinton represents a safe bet to most people, I understand why they are attracted to voting for her. I also understand why people are voting for Trump - mostly because he has an air of anti-establishment about him - he represents a not-so-safe bet, and a lot of people in this country are so fed up with the same old that they are voting for anything that might change it up - even if that means making it worse.

This election is, I hope, the worst I will ever see in my lifetime, because it has driven wedges between *human beings* more viciously than any other I've experienced. I can't stand it, and don't want to be a part of it.
Edited Date: 2016-10-27 05:06 pm (UTC)

Date: 2016-10-28 08:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elenbarathi.livejournal.com
Well, that's fair enough: your vote, your choice, and nobody has the right to coerce you into using it.

There have been 'dynasties' in the Presidency since the very start. John Adams was a Founding Father, the first vice president of the US and the second president; his son John Quincy Adams was the sixth president. William Henry Harrison was the ninth president; his grandson Benjamin Harrison was the twenty-third. FDR was a cousin of Teddy Roosevelt. Nobody seemed to think anything amiss about Bobby Kennedy running for President, nor were there any complaints about "dynasties" when Dubya became POTUS eight years after his father. It's only now that Hillary's running, that that objection is being raised.

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